April 25, 2012
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“Effeminate”: Christianity and Gender Shaming
1) The Dudes’ Club
As a kid, I was a mama’s boy. An overweight, pudgy little boy who was afraid to touch a spider even with a stick, who was so freaked out by his first weeklong trip to summer camp (his first time away from home for that long) that he wet his sleeping bag every night that week, and who was afraid to try new things or meet new people. Peers quickly picked up on such things, even in elementary school, and no small amount of taunting was the result.
What’s wrong, Russo, afraid?
Russo runs like a girl!
Russo’s got boobs! Look everyone, Russo’s got boobs!
You’re such a girl.Things in middle school were worse, of course. I was a somewhat bookish kid, with my nose in a Stephen King novel more often than not. I didn’t watch football or wrestling. I didn’t automatically know all the rules to every sport we played in gym class (and the teachers assumed that all the boys already knew). I kept a journal, and worked on art projects, and wrote short stories and poetry. I kept my sexual fantasies to myself. I couldn’t catch, I ran slow, and I was picked last for pretty much every sport.
I was not in what Tyler Clark calls the Dudes’ Club. And the names kept coming.
Queer.
Freak.
Faggot.Homo.
Fatass.Pussy.
And while I am quite straight, and while I have since evolved into the manly man you see before you, a big hairy former summer camp counselor with a wife, a large sword collection, a growing stash of homebrewed alcohol, a love of action-adventure movies, and a primitive-camping-and-wilderness-survival hobby… I still am not, and never will be, in the Dudes’ Club.
I’m okay with that, really. Members of the Dudes’ Club are hard to talk to. When I hang out with them, I feel like I’m constantly being weighed, measured, and found wanting. If I don’t drop enough sports references, or if my voice cracks, or if I use too many art terms, or if I express an awe of beauty, or if I talk about how I love to cook, or if I’m not physically aggressive enough, or if I wear the wrong colors, or if I quote poetry… I feel as though I’m relegated to a lesser status. Not a real man. Not a man’s man, anyway. (It’s exhausting, being constantly under that level of scrutiny, always having to censor myself or check myself. No wonder I have an easier time making friends with fellow geeks than with manly-men.)
And this Dudes’ Club exclusion is no less true in Christian circles than otherwise. More true, even.
2) My Pastor Can Beat Up Your Pastor
In July of 2011, megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll posted on his Facebook page, “So, what story do you have about the most effeminate anatomically male worship leader you’ve ever personally witnessed?” This under-140-character statement is full of implications: first, that some who are “anatomically male” are presumably not male in any other way; second, that many worship leaders are “effeminate”; third, that those males in Christian leadership who are not masculine enough should be ridiculed. The firestorm of anger that erupted at this posting prompted Driscoll to take the post down, but although he has since referred to the post as “flippant,” he has never apologized.
In his own words, Driscoll describes the lead-up to the status update as follows: “I had a recent
conversation with a stereotypical, blue-collar guy who drives his truck with his tools, lunchbox, and hard hat to his job site every day. He said he wasn’t a Christian, but he was open and wanted to learn what the Bible said. In that conversation, he told me he’d visited a church but that the guy doing the music made him feel uncomfortable because he was effeminate (he used another more colorful word, but that one will suffice in its place). He asked some questions about the Bible, and whether the Bible said anything about the kind of guy who should do the music. I explained the main guy doing the music in the Bible was David, who was a warrior king who started killing people as a boy and who was also a songwriter and musician.“
All right, so this red-blooded blue-collar American–and Driscoll goes to great lengths to rhetorically establish him as such, right down to the hard hat and tools–is turned off because the worship leader wasn’t as manly a manly man as him. Driscoll didn’t do too wrong here, he directed the guy to a different role model found in Scripture, one who the guy might have an easier time relating to. Now, I don’t know what was so effeminate about this worship director–whether he had Mister Rogers hair or a bow tie or a high-pitched voice or what. I somehow doubt that we’re talking someone in full-out drag here. But whatever the issue our hard-hatted blue-collar friend had was, the post that came out of this took “this wasn’t a guy I could relate to” and turned it into “this is a guy to ridicule, to put down, to tell stories about.”
Not everyone is as vague as Driscoll, however. More recently, Reformed pastor Douglas Wilson posted the following list: “Your Worship Service Might Be Effeminate If…” In it, he lists several signs that the
worship, sermons, or people in your church might be “effeminate,” with items ranging from “One of the ministerial staff has taken to wearing a clerical collar and a powder pink shirt,” to “The worship team gravitates toward ‘Jesus is my girlfriend’ songs,” to sermons not calling out sinners in the congregation, to the kind of man the minister is. Even the chords used in the music are not above scrutiny.
Chris Rosebrough, watchdog responsible for Pirate Christian Radio, is not above such specifics either. One of the interruptions for his show begins with a recording of the contemporary worship song “Breathe.” The song is interrupted by the sounds of battle, and a pirate voice saying something to the effect of, “We’ll be taking your sissy girlified worship music now… and replacing it with the real thing!” The music then switches to a militant choral rendition of “A Mighty Fortress.”
Others complain that any worship music that sounds too romantic or talks about loving beauty is effeminate. “But by the turn of the twentieth century, hymns had taken a decisive move toward the feminine … Praise music has accelerated this trend. Not only are the lyrics of many of these songs quite romantic, but they have the same breathless feel as top forty love songs. “Hold me close, let your love surround me. Bring me near, draw me to your side.” “I’m desperate for you, I’m lost without you.” “Let my words be few. Jesus I am so in love with you.” “You’re altogether lovely … altogether wonderful to me.” “Oh Lord, you’re beautiful. Your face is all I seek.” –David Murrow
This sort of thing–church leaders calling out those styles and actions they consider to be “effeminate”–has become widespread enough now that the Internet Monk even has a name for the movement now: “Esau Christianity.” (Named after biblical macho-man Esau, the red and hairy hunter.)
“They don’t look like church boys, you know… wearing sweater-vests, walking around singing love songs to Jesus… The problem with church today, it’s just a bunch of nice, soft, tender, chickified church boys.”3) “Effeminate”: What does the term mean?
The first reaction of many to these Esau Christianity statements is to say (rightly so) that effeminate should not be an insult, because women are not inferior beings. But Wilson’s supporters claim that “effeminate” is separate from “feminine,” that the former is the sinful distortion of the latter, and that that term is biblical.
Is it?
We’ve actually talked about this before. There is a term used in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 which is translated by several Bibles (including the KJV) as “effeminate.”
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
The word, however, is a difficult one to translate. Malakos (μαλακός) literally means “soft.” That’s all it usually means. So what is Paul saying, when he says that the “soft” shall not inherit the kingdom? The only other time this word is used in Scripture is to refer to the soft clothes that rich people wear. Some have translated this word as “effeminate,” while others go with “male prostitutes” or “catamites.”
Personally I side with the ESV’s translation, which seems to feel that malakos is paired with arsenokoites to specifically refer to the receiving partner and the penetrating partner of homosexual sex–it’s used here in a sense of “soft” as in “penetrable.” Here’s a few sources for this understanding of the term (read all the footnotes).
And so, if Driscoll,Wilson, Rosebrough and Murrow intend their readers and listeners to take a biblical understanding of the term “effeminate,” they are literally calling those they apply the term to “gay.” (This is a term that should not be used as
an insult, because God loves gays, and to insult is to be unloving.)
This does not seem to be their usage of the term, however. Wilson’s list contained many things which had no real relation to sexuality at all, except maybe to the trappings of gender roles: worship styles, sermon topics, the role of women in church governance, and chord changes. Driscoll’s comments in the above video complain about effeminate churches in the sense of the clothes that the “church boys” wear, the sort of colors the churches are painted–things that have little to do with sex.
This extrabiblical understanding of effeminacy has little to do with sex or sexuality at all, and everything to do with gender shaming.
ma·cho [mah-choh]
adjective1. having or characterized by qualities considered manly, especially when manifested in an assertive, self-conscious, or dominating way.2. having a strong or exaggerated sense of power or the right to dominate.
4) Shame, shame, everyone knows your name.Most evangelical Christians fall into one of two camps when it comes to gender roles. The egalitarian view is that all humans, men and women alike, are equal in God’s sight, and that there are no distinctions in role or status–ministry positions in the church and in the home are available to anyone, regardless of gender. The complementarian view is that, while men and women are of equal value in God’s sight, they have different functions and roles which they were created to fulfill. For complementarians, certain ministries may be intended for a particular gender, such as the role of pastor.
Theologically, I dance between the two (or hold them both simultaneously in a Chestertonian paradoxical unity), so I at least somewhat understand where Driscoll and Wilson are coming from. They believe that certain activities and roles, which are intended for the female, should not be performed by the male. Driscoll comes out against stay-at-home dads, for instance, because he believes that provision is the responsibility of the husband, and a stay-at-home dad is shirking his male gender role for a female gender role.
However, even if I granted him that (which I do not, not entirely), there is a world of difference between a role, a function (like that of nurturer or provider) and a trapping, a peripheral (like a style of clothing or a style of worship).
It’s interesting that by making their complaints issues of effeminacy, Driscoll and Wilson are both assigning gender “roles” to nongendered aspects of Christianity. Between them, here is the list of gendered qualities we can find implicit in their statements.
Masculine:
–Slaughtering people
–Battle
–Blue collar work
–Judgement, wrath, and Hell
–Calling out sin
–Terrifying sinners
–Calling out the specific sins of congregants
–The works of a select list of artists.Feminine:
–Transcendent experiences in worship
–Sweater-vests, robes, and clerical collars
–Literary Societies
–Well-trained choirs
–(By contrast) Intellectual or White-collar work
–Badly behaving church leaders (?)
–Nonconfrontational sermons
–Songs about love, even love for God
–Songs about beauty
–Being “tender” or “sensitive.”
–Being offended by lists that call you effeminate.I am struggling to see any connection between some of these aspects and the gender attributes they are being assigned to. After all, why would a change from an E minor to a C major be any more feminine than masculine? These assignations seem nearly arbitrary.
Thus my conclusion is, These “Esau Christians” are guilty of using gender shaming as a way to insult those they disagree with on minor issues. Call someone effeminate, and you can marginalize them. Nitpick about their clothing, and you can explain them away as part of the problem. Associate that music style that you dislike so much with womenfolk, and you can get people to reject it. It’s emotional manipulation.
Faggot.
Pussy.
Girly-man.It’s manipulative and it’s wrong. Because God, even if he turns out to be complementarian, embraces a wider and larger view of masculinity than Driscoll and Wilson and Rosebrough do. There is room in the church for all kinds of men.
5) A Boy Named Sue
The Internet Monk points out, in its article on Esau Christianity, that God ultimately rejected Esau, for all his hairy, outdoorsy manliness, and instead favored his brother–the scheming kitchen-bound mama’s boy. “Jacob the wimp, the mama’s boy, the effeminate one, the scaredy-cat, weak and insecure and ineffective — that’s who God chose to become Israel, the father of his old covenant people. Esau, the man’s man, the outdoorsman, the man of strength and muscle, the warrior who was unafraid of hard work or a fight didn’t make the cut. The very name of God’s chosen community is bound up with the story of an effeminate weakling!”
I’ve never felt such an affinity with Jacob before. The jocks wouldn’t have let Jacob into the Dudes’ Club either.
For that matter, I have to look twice at Driscoll’s take on David–the man who “slaughtered people” since a young age, yes, but also the tenderhearted poet, the man who wept openly over the death of loved ones, the man who was so excited about the coming of God’s Ark that he stripped nearly naked and danced in the streets. (Talk about a transcendent worship experience? Do you think the look on David’s face as he danced was like “those of guys in the backseats of their cars, having just gotten to second base with their actual girlfriends”?
Even John Eldredge, foaming-at-the-mouth complementarian John Eldredge of Wild at Heart fame, does not hold as narrow a view of masculinity as the Esau Christianity crowd does. I may be overgeneralizing, but when I read his books I never had the sense that he was saying that if I didn’t conform to his understanding of men that I was a sissy, but only, “This is the cry of my heart–and it may be the cry of your heart too. Listen.” In his book The Way of the Wild Heart, Eldredge speaks of the various stages he believes every man needs to progress through, one of which is The Lover, in which he believes men are awoken to beauty. “We must not let the battle become everything. …The Celts had a phrase, ‘Never give a sword to a man who can’t dance,’ by which they meant if he is not also becoming a poet, be careful how much Warrior you allow a man to be. …that which draws us to the heart of God is that which often first lifts our own hearts above the mundane, awakens longing and desire.” He goes on to link the transcendent experiences he’s talking about to the original Jesus-is-my-girlfriend worship song, the hymn “Jesus, Lover of my Soul,” written by none other than Charles Wesley.
His description of God’s presence in beauty resonates with the heart of this poet.
6) The Multifaceted God
My God is bigger than all this.
My God is big enough that he describes himself in both Father imagery and Mother imagery. He is bigger than gender, bigger than gender roles, bigger than all the silly trappings. And if in my God there is no Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female–then there certainly isn’t any demarcation between the properly manly-men in the Dudes’ club and those of us who aren’t macho enough to make the cut.
God, who proudly called himself the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, loves me. And he does not love me any less because I am bad at baseball, a slow runner, a poet, “soft,” “tender,” or overweight, and he would not love me less if I put on a sweater-vest or a clerical robe.
As Rachel Held Evans said of Driscoll’s controversial post, “While I disagree with many of Mark’s views on femininity and masculinity, I am convinced that Christians can talk about gender issues with gentleness and respect, without resorting to stereotypes, bullying, and scorn.” This is a conversation worth having, worth disagreeing respectfully on–but that respect must be there, or conversation collapses. Labeling everyone who disagrees with you “effeminate?” Yeah, not so respectful. As it stands, those who have engaged in “Esau Christianity” are in danger of misrepresenting God through their words.
Comments (23)
Talking about gender issues with gentleness and respect is probably effeminate.
*sigh* I should probably include a sarcasm mark:
Yup, I would agree with what you wrote. (Was going to just read and not comment, but I figured if I agreed it’d be nice for me to say so. lol.)
I think people read a whole lot into how macho or feminine different guys in the Bible were.
I also think Driscoll takes too strong of a stance without enough justification. Maybe if I dug deeper, I’d see more of an explanation.
Also, for the record, I find beauty in certain religious things, am at type brought to tears by such things, etc.
That all being said, hearing Driscoll or other “Esau Christians” speak is sometimes refreshing. A lot of American churches are aimed at making middle-aged or older women happy. I can’t blame most men for not wanting to go.
@stuartandabby - You know, I have nothing against building up men and men’s place in the church. I’ve been blessed to attend two churches in my time which had strong, thriving men’s ministries–both led by manly men of God. But such ministries took pains to embrace all men, whether they were into football, fishing, or fiction. There wasn’t the sense that I would be excluded if I didn’t put on a facade.
I like Mark Driscoll and don’t think he should be crucified for his statement (he did take it down and said it was inappropriate). Too many times, people in the public eye are taken to account for every careless word spoken and that is done to minimize the rest of their words and work. I also like the way that the writer and commenters do allow that their understanding of the statement might not be complete.
That said, I would not want to use the word Esau as descriptive of any godly man. Jacob was chosen by God from before time. It had nothing to do with his manliness, but God did have to deliver him from manipulative ways which I believe are reprehensible to God. The actual playing out of sexuality is to be in accordance with God’s physical design of each gender and for procreation. Man with man and woman with woman is plainly against scripture and, as such is sinful. Many not-so-manly-appearing men are not at all ungodly and many men who want to assert their manhood are also lacking in understanding about their submission to their head, who is Christ. And, Esau was one who wouldn’t submit because of this nature, even though he did find himself begging for a serving of pottage, which was certainly a low point for him.
There must be at least a million excuses that allow the weak Christian and the unbeliever to “reject” churches as a sign of their superiority over church-attending Christians. This is just another of those.
People do tend to gravitate to the set of people they feel most comfortable with…I don’t consider that wrong, only it does tend to make evangelism more difficult for those who do so.
You presented the issue with much care and thought, and it shows. I was pleased to see how Eldredge held up, though I prefer Stu Weber’s Tender Warrior ‘s view of the female gender role more than the view I find in Wild At Heart (and all its variants). I still feel that Eldredge is making a big contribution to allowing manhood to be significant without having to be seen as threatening.
You did a good job of presenting the information, though I think you need to condense it for better readability. I LOVED the picture of Jesus with the Father tat, lol.
jus’ me
cm
I totally understand the whole “unnecessarily gender-associated” angle. I’m a guy who likes to cook, crochet, garden, and organize a household. And I’d like to be more involved with helping parents raise their kids, but I normally keep this to myself (most parents would be uneasy if they saw a childless 40-year-old never-married guy expressing so much interest in kids).
In the past, these tasks were relegated to women, probably because men were occupied doing the backbreaking work that required upper-body strength (things like construction and farming, but without machines or power tools). But since that is no longer the case for most of us in modern-day America, I see no reason why these need to remain gender-associated. If a woman can be a CEO if she wants to be (and is qualified), why can’t a guy demonstrate his worth around the house if he likes (and is good at it)?
That being said, this fan of Mark Driscoll must take exception to how his Facebook update is being characterized. Written media fails to convey nuances like tone and pace. For this reason, we all must be on our guard against inserting emphasis in places where it was not meant. I fear that is what has happened here.
All I see in the Driscoll update, and the story behind it, is that pastor Driscoll heard about a phenomenon that was new to him, so he wanted to hear about other people’s similar experiences. The fastest and broadest way to do that is through the Internet. So Driscoll was simply asking for information, not seeking to ridicule.
With regard to the first implication you mentioned (that some who are “anatomically male” are presumably not male in any other way), I don’t see that at all. Instead, I read this as a qualification about the story, not the person. In other words, this was probably meant to exclude stories about female worship leaders. There isn’t anything wrong with being a female worship leader, of course. But those aren’t the stories he’s interested in gathering. And in the gender-confused environment where Driscoll pastors, he needed to specify precisely what he meant by “male”.
With regard to the second implication (that many worship leaders are “effeminate”), this is totally not in the text. At no point does Driscoll make any kind of statement about the quantity of effeminate worship leaders. He’s just asking that, if anyone has encountered it, to please share that experience with him.
With regard to the third implication (that those males in Christian leadership who are not masculine enough should be ridiculed), this is borne out of the misconceptions from the first and second implication, so it falls when they do. In particular, Driscoll isn’t asking to ridicule. Quite the opposite, he’s asking to benefit from other people’s first-person observations.
Finally, about so-called “Esau Christians” and “Jacob Christians”: it was not for Esau’s macho-ness or Jacob’s being a “mama’s boy” that God chose Jacob and not Esau. Instead, it is for one reason and one reason only that God says “I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated” (Malichi 1:2b-3a). It is because, in Genesis 25:29-34, Esau DESPISED HIS BIRTHRIGHT.
As Isaac’s firstborn son, Esau was the inheritor of God’s covenant with Abraham. Yet Esau valued this honor so cheaply that he was willing to trade it away for a bowl of soup. (Esau’s claim to be “starving” is spurious. His father Isaac was a rich man with many servants and vast flocks. None of those servants would have hesitated to milk or slaughter an animal, or even give up his own lunch, to save the life of their master’s son.) So please, let’s not be distracted by peripheral matters like Jacob and Esau’s personality traits or preferred jobs. All that matters here is that Esau rejected God’s promise, but Jacob welcomed it.
I’d love to talk more about this, but I need to go dig some holes. The blue and pink flowers on the hydrangea shrubs will contrast nicely against the white walls of the church where I’m planting them.
Yeah, I go there but I disagree on a host of issues. I also partially agree with the complementarian view but I think he takes it a bit too far, I believe there are exceptions based on circumstances. I see mark as a manly college jock and that pervades his perspective, at times clouds it. I see myself as pretty manly but not in the way he is, and I don’t see killing as a manly thing.
Disclaimer: I skimmed much of this, reading some parts more thoroughly and some not at all.
In my opinion, most of the guys who are “macho men” are anything but. I’ve known guys that were so tough they were afraid to carry their wife’s purse. As my father taught us, real men don’t have to prove it all the time.
Some men, even straight ones, are more effeminate. Some women are manly. Blame the hormones in chicken or something.
I am like you in that I, “dance between the two (or hold them both simultaneously in a Chestertonian paradoxical unity)”. It really is ideal for children to be home with mom. That is with the understanding that the mother and father are dedicated to God and mom is a nurturingtype, and not an abusive horror. But you can have situations where the reverse is going to be best.
I am not sure what his intent was with that facebook status either. If it stemmed from a conversation he had with a non believer, he may have been trying to get more of a feel for what people observe in churches.
Most of what Driscoll says that I have heard was spot on though. Every single aspect of our lives have been twisted by the world, manipulated to make the Christian stance appear bad. I think he just wants to untwist it all. As a human though, he’s gonna mess it up here and there. I really don’t think he is the barbarian he has been made out to be – and I’m not talking about this blog. After your pulse I read a few articles on him and then I watched the actual sermons, and the articles completely twisted his standing.
I loved this… REALLY and TRULY loved it. And I actually made it through about 99percent of it! HAHA (I usually only skim larger posts).
I DO NOT believe that you have to be a macho man to be a “man of God.” God is after OBEDIENCE. He doesn’t say, “Come and be rambo…” He says, “Come as you ARE.”
I think that being a man has to do with responsibility and what the bible really and truly says about being a man, a father, and a husband. You’re to watch out for your family, protect them, defend them (if necessary) and a slew of other things none of which says, “Thou must watch’eth football and holler like a chimpeth… Thou must beat thine chest and become as burly as necessary… Woe to thee who lovest the color salmon and speaketh of mine beauty… for it is a color that will lead thee to the fiery pits where there exists much knashing of teeth… and salmon lovers…and lovers of my beauty… Begone from the ways of softer music and tears, for they are the way of the devil…”
>__>
I will depart with the comment that I left on the video of which you posted above ^
Coming from a guy who’s wearing more JEWELRY than I am… on any given day >_>
BTW, David was a SHEPPHERD boy before he was anything close to a king. He played instruments and wrote songs and poetry… >_>
“One thing I have desired of the Lord,
That will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the Lord
All the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the Lord,
And to inquire in His temple.
5 For in the time of trouble
He shall hide me in His pavilion;.” – David
Great post!
BTW: here’s another blogger with another view on the meme.
@stuartandabby - you hit the nail on the head with your comment “A lot of American churches are aimed at making middle-aged or older women happy. I can’t blame most men for not wanting to go.” apparently the macho men relegated their leadership of the church long ago. gotta keep those lady folks happy. if you don’t, watch out!
seeing this attitude spill over into the church shouldn’t surprise us much, though. it’s been prevalent in our society for many years now. when WAS it that a popular catch phrase in high school… among the fellers… was… something to the effect of… “that’s so gay!” (and various derivatives of that…)
i find it rather narrow minded to try to pigeon hole people. or, perhaps some have simply watched “mean girls” one too many times. (could a macho man perhaps be a closet teen-movies-starring-lindsay-lohan fan?
)
or is it that it’s easier to label people and dump them into categories rather than minister to each… as individuals?
Not religious, but I do dance between both genders. I’m sorry you were picked on for being “too girly”, I was given crap for being “too boy-like”.
An excellent post and I had to add my own commendation even though you have so many. It reminded me of my own feelings about hymn warbling when I was a church goer. I always felt uneasy with those hymns and indeed attitude which placed me in the position of talking about Jesus as if I was an adoring girl fan. I sang ‘em anyway, understanding that it was not important enough to stir the boat too much and that I never really saw the glorified Christ as a man anyway. And I understood that God would see what I meant dispute the unease with the actual words. Anyway, my church was full of recent converts from fairly unconventional backgrounds and to add to their problems of fitting into how church operated would not have helped them.
People like driscoll alienate the majority of men who are not “jocks” and who are reminded by him of the thick-headed bullies one remembers who swarm over the weaker elements throughout the grades of school and college. I was turned off sports at a very young age indeed for two reasons: I couldn’t do ‘em anyway; and who wants to emulate the sort of ape who could, which included the sports teachers.
I would suggest that Driscoll felt alienated himself when first converted and sees that happening now in jock types and wishes to draw them in. I can understand the need to ease the alienation that some parts might feel with the whole. I’ve seen Blacks feel uncomfortable in the whole “white-type” services. There again, I’ve never seen a “Black” service that was my cup of tea either. Swings and roundabouts. The balance to be found is to sincerely invite all types in. Humanity is a kaleidoscope of types and as the cliché goes”we’re all sinners” and services should reflect that.
I’m just reminiscing on past experiences and just thought sharing about services and attitudes would help, even though I’m talking from outside the box now. Sorry it is not as bursting with clarity as it might have been. I’m on my first coffee and the sun hasn’t been up that long.
@Lovegrove - Meh, clarity is for third drafts, and who writes a third draft of a blog-comment?
@IMChurchmouse - I saw that one–it was very well written!
@BloodTypo - Well, I think the video I posted counters the idea that Driscoll was unaware of this “phenomenon.” In it, he says things like, “60% of the church are chicks, and the 40% that are dudes are… still kind of chicks.” He calls “church boys” the “problem with the church today.” What this tells me is that Driscoll already had a particular attitude about church boys not being “manly” enough long before his Facebook post.
Secondly, even in the “gender-confused” church, I think a simple call for stories about “male worship leaders” would have gotten the point across if there was no implicit insult. To specify anatomically male is to narrow it down further. It begs the question: “anatomically male” as opposed to what? Culturally male? Visibly male? Really male?
Regarding whether there’s an implication of quantity–well, again, the video lends more context to the Facebook status, but let’s skip that. The fact that he’s asking the Internet at large for stories grants that he at least assumes that the quantity is plural: that the one worship leader that our blue-collar friend encountered is not the only example. And secondly we have the wording. If he were startled by a new idea he’d never encountered, his post would have read more like, “Have you ever seen an effeminate anatomically male worship leader?” But instead it reads, “So, what story do you have about the most effeminate anatomically male worship leader you’ve ever personally witnessed.” (Emphasis mine.) “What story do you have” assumes that many readers of his Facebook page have such a story. He didn’t say, “Do you have any stories…?” And “the most effeminate” assumes that these people have stories about several effeminate worship leader, but they have to pick the one with the most effeminacy.
Regarding the third implication, if Driscoll was seeking to benefit from their stories, I don’t see what positive benefit he would have gained, given the way he worded this post. What would the story be about? About how effective they are as worship leaders? Details about their ministry? None of that is implicit in the post. The only thing the stories could be about, given what Driscoll is asking, is about their effeminacy. In a writing prompt like this, effeminacy would become the central topic of any on-topic responses he would get. I read this status update as saying, “Tell me about how effeminate they are. Tell me about their sweater-vests and their haircuts. Give me details about how unmanly they look or act.”
If this status update occurred in a vacuum, it wouldn’t be so bad. But it occurs within the context of Driscolls’ other statements regarding manhood and masculinity (especially the interview in that video!), and the statements of others such as Wilson and Murrow. (Out of all these, it’s Wilson’s post that gets me the angriest, far more that Driscoll’s Facebook post.)
I think labeling these people as “Esau Christians” is not a statement that God rejects manly-men or anything like that, but rather a statement that these gentlemen, like Esau, are missing an important point.
@OutOfTheAshes - “I think labeling these people as “Esau
Christians” is not a statement that God rejects manly-men or anything
like that, but rather a statement that these gentlemen, like Esau, are
missing an important point.”
A good point.
On the whole “Jesus is my girlfriend” thing: shouldn’t it be the other way around? I mean, the Church is the Bride of Christ, is it not? So, if anything, Jesus would be the man/husband/lover and we, collectively, are his bride.
Today, when we think of marriage, we tend to think first of sex being legitimized. But in the past, marriage was a specific kind of contract with much broader ramifications. It was the husband’s legal responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to love and serve his wife. Also, women had little if any legal standing as citizens except through their husbands.
This, I think, is the better analogy for the “Jesus is my lover” songs. Because the Church is the Bride of Christ, Jesus provides for her, protects her, loves and serves her. And it is only because of our relationship with Him that we have any “legal standing” in Heaven.
In the light of such abounding demonstrations of love, doesn’t Jesus deserve a bit more from us than “thanks for the free stuff”? Somehow, I don’t think it inappropriate to respond with expressions like:
“I will ever love and trust him, in His presence daily live”
and
“My Jesus, I love thee; I know Thou art mine / For Thee, all the follies of sin I resign”
and
“Fairest Lord Jesus … Thee will I cherish, Thee will I honor, Thou my soul’s glory, joy, and crown.”
I honestly wish that people would stop taking Mark Driscoll seriously. The man is merely a wolf in sheep’s clothing, a fleecer of the flock, a sham, a charlatan, a fake.
No one who earnestly and honestly desires to follow Jesus could / would / should dare say even half the things he does…. (Ephesians 4:28-30… but I guess that part is probably omitted from Driscoll’s edited text) MacArthur has had quite a bit to say about the “Emergent” heresy, I think it’s balanced and solidly biblical…. and it points us back to the fact that we are called to be discerning. When we, the Church, fail at discernment — then we start calling heretics brothers and fail at maintaining the purity of the Faith. (Jude :3)
While your comments (lengthy as they are) are worth thinking through… I honestly wish that the label “Christian” (As in “One who seeks to follow in the steps of Christ and the Apostles” 1 John 2:6) was applied less liberally throughout your thoughts.
As I said on Facebook recently —
We need to collectively strive to RE-strict the definition of
“Christian” back to where it was instead of this contemporary clutter of
anything goes. The Apostle John said it best: Anyone who claims to
live in Christ MUST…. M-U-S-T…. live by his example. (1 John 2:6)
I understand that Jesus said there would be tares among the
wheat — wolves in the flock — but that doesn’t mean we need to
encourage it!!!
When Rob Bell questions Hell — question his actual Christianity. Simple as that.
One final thought regarding my thoughts —
They shall K-N-O-W you are my disciples by your..
That doesn’t mean they have to guess, wonder, question, speculate, be baffled, or assume.
Look at the book of 1st John. How many times does he use the word “KNOW”…. apparently certainty of the believer was a key matter, Otherwise why would Peter call Simon the Sorcerer to task and God, Himself, smite Annanias and Saphira (Acts 8 and 5 respectively.) I dare say that if God would smite a few folk for cheating the offering plate now-a-days, Church attendance would probably drop dramatically showing clearly the Rocky, thorny, stony and Fruitful fields.
I stumbled across this blog and kinda chuckled given this recent post:http://bgospelm.tumblr.com/