Chris, if I ever questioned your brilliance this post removed all doubt. You had me in stiches with your dentist story (sorry that your pain makes me laugh, Darth Vader-LOL), my brain was almost overwhelmed with your Origins of the World speech (you had me scared for 2 seconds with the “I believe in evolution.” quote. phew!), and in regards to your wondering over my deleted post, don’t worry. I had a bad night at church, got my feelings hurt by my two pastors and took it out on my poor blog. Upon reading it this morning, my rant only further validated the whole “red-head with a temper to match” picture of myself, and I realized that it was a completely worthless piece of “poor me” drivel written by an emotional female. Thus the deletion. It wasn’t worth the time I took to peck it out while crying, nor anyone’s time reading or commenting on it, soooo….enough with that.

Ok, I think the other debate is dead, so I’ll try to tackle the current one at hand : Co-Ed B-studies.

This one caught me off guad because I can honestly say I’ve never thought about it. I guess being raised and currently involved in the “charismatic” type church, it’s a pretty normal occurence. I would say that as a whole, the independent, charismatic body of believers take the “freedom” and “permissible” thing too far at times, so I imagine that is why it has been a non-issue for me. Currently my church has “small groups” that meet during the week and the single men and women have a co-ed study every other week, and a seperate study divided by gender every other week. We divide up to study and discuss issues that pertain to us. For instance, the guys are covering sexual purity and the girls are covering female relationships right now.

Ok so let’s talk pros and cons since I really don’t think I have a conviction about it yet, maybe I will after the discussion:

PROS:
1. Kim said, men and women have different perspectives and bring equally valid and fascinating viewpoints to the table in a Bible study, and I’ve seen this come into play through personal experience. We can learn something we probably never would have if everything were same-gender.
2. The interaction that happens at these Bible studies are great (usually) and give us an understanding of the opposite sex that we may not have otherwise. Comes back to the different perspectives. It’s a good time to grow and teach each other in how to relate to one another, respect each other etc. I’ve also seen this dynamic come into play.
3. As long as the topic or discussion is gender-nuetral as almost everyone has stated ( and sometimes that’s hard, so it falls to the responsibility of the leader in charge to facilitate proper discussion), it can be a very positive experience.
4. As a homeschooler, I experienced the whole segregationist behavior that the amish culture possesses. At times it was unintentional or encouraged, but it happened- the guys would hang out on one side of the room and the girls on the other (and never should the two meet). Because of it, I lacked the skills to relate to guys into my teen years, and it wasn’t until well into high school  that I had any good guy friends. Now am I blaming that on the homeschooling association? No way! But I wish there had been more interaction encouraged, rather than discouraged. I hope that makes sense. Point being: beware of seperating the sexes just because it removes the “appearance of evil.” factor.
5. Kim in regard to your women leading co-ed. I did, just last semester. It wasn a little different though than the one you are referencing. This Bible study group studied guitar and the Bible, and it was multi-generational, multi-relational (singles and marrieds), and bi-gender. I loved it. I really enjoyed the diversity and it worked well.

CONS:
1. Discussion could lead to innapropriate topics that, like Pandora’s box, should not be opened. I remember one time, after the study, the guys and girls were hanging out in my bedroom and the discussion led toward “Do guys know when girls ‘like’ them?” Of course, our arrogant little boys stated that they “always” knew, and that put the girls in a state of terror. haha!
2. When there is a co-ed enviroment, people tend to close-up and not be as “real” as they should. Whether it be that someone is uncomfortable sharing a weakness or an opinion because guys/girls are present, or so and so likes so and so and wants to seem all spiritual and make the best impression. I’ve known myself to be reluctant to share because I was intimidated by what the guys would think. That is RARE though.
3. Same gender studies give those involved the option of talking about “taboo” topics or gender-specific topics they wouldn’t otherwise venture into.
4. Some people say that you promote romantic relationships by having this format, but I don’t really think that’s always a bad thing…we are single adults and looking for a mate is not a sin.

Alright, I think I exhausted all I could think of. I imagine y’all will come up with a few more biblical and logical points. I can’t wait for your thoughts Holly since you brought up this nifty discussion.

peace out – B r o o k e

OOOCH ! Yeah Chris, that one messes with me…but we have to be very careful to keep it in context – Paul was talking to a church where the women were getting loud during church and there was authority issues, at least from my studies that has been the case. If we get into the legalism of defining  womens role in ministry by one scripture and not the whole of the Bible (I can and will name many strong women of the bible who were in “leadership/teaching” roles of some sort, if requested), then we are in danger of missing out on a wonderful gift that women can offer. When it comes to issues such as this where the Bible seems to be contradictive, we must take a scripture and apply it to the whole thought and intent of the the Bible concerning that specific topic. I don’t know about you, but I actually think women are allowed to talk in church, wear makeup, pierce their ears, not wear a viel and so forth, and it NOT be a sin. And the bible seems to have some “proof texts” on those issues, but only the weirdo-cultish people seem to quote those scriptures(heehee!).

Not that I think you are trying to say we should restrict woman,Chris (never would I say that!!) I just have a problem when people quote that verse and forget certain others. Secondly, I have dealt with the discrimination that come when guys take this scripture to extremes. I was in a leadership role for student ministry at my bible college. I did not seek the role. But there were no men willing or able to step up to the plate, so I took it. And that experience was one of the most amazing in my life – I actually “taught” in a pulpit at the Salvation Army Chapel several times and so did many of the other women in that student ministry, as well as the few guys. But the other men that were in leadership in that same student ministry dept. (evangelism – go figure) ignored me, made me feel like I was less of a leader and never even acknowledge the role I had taken or the job I did.

If there was a man available, I would have never taken that role, and that’s my point. A lot of times men of God won’t step into their calling, so women have to pick up the ball that was dropped. Do I condone women as pastors of a body of believers? by no means! But I do believe that for example,when I taught the teens 2 weeks ago at youth service (and I asked the youth pastor if I could), that was completely appropriate and needed. Diversity is a cool thing.

I also realize women try to fill roles men were desgined for and when a man comes along, they won’t step aside. We are stubborn like that at times  The whole point of my comment was to be cautious that you don’t create a cookie cutter mold to fit men and women into when it comes to the ministry ok?

And if I didn’t make sense, or it seemed like I was attacking men (or Chris), please forgive me because that was not my intention. I  just wanted to play devil’s advocate  (and you thought that was your job, Chris) and speak from personal experience.

Oh yeah and I’m not feeling to well, so that may explain my lack of coherence…