March 5, 2011

  • Bell and Hell

    (This is one of those posts I didn't intend to write, but I looked at a comment and said, "Dang, I went and wrote them a book," and since I don't post as much as I used to, I then recycled the comment as a post.  Hope you don't mind.)

    Apparently there's some controversy bubbling up in the evangelical Christian community regarding Rob Bell's new book.

    Rob Bell, from what I understand, is one of the pastors of Mars Hill church, and has been characterized as being on the more liberal side of mainstream evangelicalism.  But the thing that has some people in a froth is that he released a YouTube video, actually a trailer for his latest book, which seems to question the doctrine of Hell.

    It's an old question, "How can a loving God send people to Hell?"  "Is Ghandi in Hell?"  "How is Hell fair?"  I guess people aren't used to hearing such questions from a pastor, though.

    Here's the video, if you want to see for yourself:

    If that video is what people are reacting to, this really is disheartening.  In my opinion, unless there's more evidence that is as of yet forthcoming, this video is not worth the level of reaction some have witnessed.

    First: he starts out, bouncing off the story of the note pinned to the art exhibit, by asking a series of very good questions.  Questions that everyone should have asked at one point or another.  And he makes several very good connections (such as that our view on Hell will be influenced by who we think God is).  A friend of mine pointed out that he "answers no questions in this video, only raises them," and that since his book isn't out yet, we can't know what his answers are.  I'm with her-- we know little from this video as to what *answers* he will proffer to these questions.

    So, is evangelical Christianity going to write off one of its own because of the questions he's asking, before it even knows what conclusions he has come to?  Yikes. 

    Second: One of the things he does question--and in questioning, seems to criticize--is that the Gospel is that you're going to Hell unless you believe in Jesus, and thus that Jesus saves us from Hell (and therefore from God). 

    This idea is worth questioning and criticizing even from an entirely orthodox platform.  The Gospel is that God and humanity have been reconciled, that humans can now once again be part of the already-and-not-yet Kingdom of Heaven, and (as a side note) that when you die you can enter God's presence, commonly known as heaven.

    That is very different from "The Gospel means we are saved from Hell."  The idea that Gospel = saved from Hell has already been criticized extensively by (for example) Dallas Willard, in his book "The Divine Conspiracy," among other books by other theologians.  Quite simply, it's the wrong focus, and takes all the emphasis off of our lives here on this earth--quite the opposite of what Jesus preached.  Jesus promised them not just life eternal but life more abundant.  The Gospel is about so much more than simply dodging Hell, so much more even than attaining heaven.

    Third: if we are going to criticize Rob Bell for saying that God doesn't send people to Hell, we must also criticize various other theologians who have been embraced by mainstream evangelical Christianity, such as C.S. Lewis and Timothy Keller.  Both of those writers wrote that we send ourselves to Hell, that ultimately we seperate ourselves from God, and that God is desperately trying to rescue us from ourselves through his own loving sacrifice.

    First Lewis:

    "Finally, it is objected that the ultimate loss of a single soul means the defeat of omnipotence. And so it does. In creating beings with free will, omnipotence from the outset submits to the possibility of such defeat. What you call defeat, I call miracle: for to make things which are not Itself, and thus to become, in a sense, capable of being resisted by its own handiwork, is the most astonishing and unimaginable of all the feats we attribute to the Deity. I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside."  -- The Problem of Pain

    "Hell begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining, always blaming others... but you are still distinct from it.  You may even criticize it in yourself and wish you could stop it.  But there may come a day when you can no longer.  Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood or even to enjoy it, but just the grumble itself, going on forever like a machine.  It is not a question of God 'sending us' to hell.  In each of us there is something growing, which will BE Hell unless it is nipped in the bud."  --The Great Divorce

    "All that are in Hell choose it.  Without that choice it wouldn't be Hell.  No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it."  --The Problem of Pain.

    And then Keller:

    "In short, hell is simply one's freely chosen identity apart from God on a trajectory into infinity...  That is why it is a travesty to picture God casting people into a pit who are crying,  'I'm sorry!  Let me out!'  ...All God does in the end with people is give them what they most want, including freedom from himself."  --The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism

    So saying that God doesn't send people to Hell doesn't mean that Hell doesn't exist, or that people don't go there--it only clarifies God's role in damnation.  (I highly recommend the chapter on Hell in Keller's "The Reason for God," or Lewis's parable "The Great Divorce," if you want to better understand this idea.)

    I don't know if Rob Bell holds to a "The Great Divorce" -style view of Hell, in which Hell is ultimately ourselves left alone in the absence of God's presence, an emphasis on the "Depart from me, I never knew you" and a de-emphasis on flames and whips and pitchforks and many things not found in scripture but only in Dante.  If Bell does hold such a view, however, this book-trailer would make perfect sense: the "Love Wins" statement and the questioning of Christian subcultural belief.  And yet he would not be a Universalist by any stretch.

    I can't say more without more information to go on.  Perhaps I will buy the book, when it comes out on Kindle, and report back.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe Bell is, in fact, becoming a universalist, who believes that all people go to heaven--a believe sadly incompatible with Christianity.  We won't know until we read his book, though.

    And until that time, I am concerned by how freely Christians feel they can blast this pastor for assumed theology. 

Comments (17)

  • Excellent response to the hoopla.

    One theological question I have long pondered: What does "gnashing of teeth" mean, anyway? What about those who die toothless?

  • I think all the backlash is way out of proportion, just as you say.  Even guys like John Piper are throwing Bell under the bus...  It really is a bunch of craziness. 

  • N.T. Wright and Greg Boyd present similar views of hell as Lewis and Keller.  Good blog.

  • Hell's bells!

    (Come on, people, why hasn't that joke already been dragged into the ground?)

    I'm seeing this from the point of view of a publishing professional, and I notice (1) The questions he asks are simple book blurb material-- you can find nearly identical questions on the back of Tim Keller's latest, in fact, and (2) The promotional work is sheer marketing genius. It pushes the envelope just exactly far enough to create massive buzz but not far enough to actually tip the author's hand. Although the reaction has been entirely out of proportion to the material, and reflects quite poorly on certain reactionary theologians.

  • Good piece! It wasn't until I became Catholic that I began to understand the validity of Lewis' position, and now I'm incredibly grateful for it. I don't know much about Rob Bell and his beliefs, but the backlash to that video has been painful to watch--thanks for a coherent and reasonable write-up on the story.

  • CHRIS! Thank you sooooo much for writing this. I love it when people who are so much smarter than I take on a topic saying precisely what I've been thinking for so long. This whole mess with Bell is driving me nuts. I hate how people are blasting Rob and assuming his theology without even reading what he's written. Geez. I know Rob isn't the most solid theologian or even teacher, but give the guy a fighting chance - a little bit of grace would be nice.

    And now, I must go and re-read The Great Divorce.

  • First of I love your presentation of Salvation does NOT equal Jesus saving us from Hell. I think that is the way the gospel is erroneously presented. We've been teaching the teens biblical foundations and one of the concepts is eternal life does not equate heaven. We will all live for eternity. We are spirits encased in bodies here on earth, and it is just where we choose to spend eternity in spirit form that is the question. but that is not the point of the gospel, and you very clearly stated that it was to bring separated men back to their loving God. if heaven and hell were NOT a part of the equation, would we choose God? we ought to! The bible doesn't even define eternal life as entrance to heaven. "And
    THIS is eternal life, that they might
    KNOW
    You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
    "

    John 17:3
    Eternal Life = Knowing God. Sure heaven is being in the presence of God and of course, why wouldn't we want that if we desire to know God? I also do not like supposition that a loving God sends people to hell. they choose hell, just as CS Lewis points out. the work Jesus did on the cross is for all men, but that doesn't mean they will choose Him over themselves.

    To be honest though, while I like Rob's style of teaching (imagery, parables, questions, etc), his theology has always bothered me. I also feel that he is being controversial for the sake of selling books and generating buzz (not that he is the only guy that has done that). I will admit bias. I've been listening to Pastor Mark Driscoll for years who started off with Rob Bell and split with him due to theological differences. Pastor Mark has made the statement that he withholds his opinion about the book until he has read it, but fears the worst because of his personal experience with Bell. I wouldn't be surprised if the book did have a very strong universalist leaning. but I feel the video was intended to create hooplah and a frenzy about the book before it is released. again, that is my bias.

  • i'm not a rob bell fan, but not a critic, either.

    i have found that people, in general, regardless of christian or not, simply LOVE a bandwagon. most christian bandwagons turn ugly quickly, and do NOT reflect what we say we believe.

    the "hatin' rob bell" bandwagon is just the latest in a long line of wagons.

    @spokenfor - i've noticed in personal experience that people who listen to mark driscoll's teachings (which i have NO experience with... never listened to him, and don't really know much about him... so i am ignorant & unbiased) have a distaste for rob bell. it bothers me that a christian teacher would voice an opinion strongly enough that his listeners would pick up on that vein and begin to follow it. i don't think it's anyone else's business as to why he "split" with rob bell. why should that even be presented in his teaching? i say that in a mild way... i just think that it is a bit unethical to teach against someone specific. (again, maybe that's NOT what he is doing, haven't listened to him, just hear what his listeners repeat.) why not just teach the truth and let the chaff sift out?

  • I think I'm going to get this book.

  • @ehrinn_l - I don't think I have ever heard Mark comment on Bell from the pulpit. Not that I'm aware of. the reason I knew of the split was when I did a search for Mars Hill Church when I first started listening to Mark years ago, I stumbled upon a blog that gave some of Mark's history as a pastor, including his involvement with Bell. the blog was not written by Mark.

    Mark posted on Facebook that he wasn't voicing an opinion on the book (people were asking for one), because he was going to read it first, but given his history with Bell he was worried about what the book might contain. I think fans of Mark are anti-emergent church movement, because of some strong opinions Mark has about the theological soundness of the Emergent Church. He has never used to the pulpit to speak out against Rob Bell or his church that I am aware of. while I agree that pastors shouldn't use to pulpit to air personal grievances against other pastors, the pulpit can be used to point out heretics - Paul did it and so did Jesus. it seems that within the church culture it's ok to speak out against "hate group heretics" like Westboro Baptist  and their ilk, but if you personally don't deem someone's teaching to be heresy, then a pastor is wrong for stating someone is teaching things that are contrary to scripture. it's a double standard in my opinion.

    again, I'm not calling Rob a heretic and neither is Mark, but what if the book does indicate he believes in universalism? Is Mark then not allowed to state an opinion?

  • @spokenfor - well put.

    i am glad to hear that mark has never spoken out against (or for, for that matter) another teacher. i just think that we have to be careful... about doing do. people who teach are ALL human, and therefore are going to be wrong from time to time.

    i think that christians are instructed very explicitly to know the truth, so that they can identify teachings that are NOT truth. i guess i feel that i see far too much finger pointing and identifying what is WRONG with other people's interpretations (and some of those interpretations ARE really wrong, granted...) it feels sometimes as if we, in the christian community, spend so much time identifying what is wrong in EACH OTHER that we lose time dealing with the real issues "out in the world".

    and like i said, i have yet to hear someone state mark driscoll's name without almost immediately linking it with rob bell's. which is just.... weird. ;)

    mark CAN share his opinion. i just feel that spending his time on it... might be a waste of his time, too. and considering that he HAS had some type of disagreement with rob in the past... it just feels like a furthering of a perhaps broken relationship, when it might be better to leave others... who HAVE no personal connection, pro or con, to do the positive or negative critiquing.

  • @ehrinn_l -  agree with you 100%. great thoughts. I want to be someone who is known for what she is for, rather than what she is against and I think that should be said of the church, and sadly, that cannot be said. we should know the truth so that we can recognize the lie and all too many times we focus on sussing out lies, rather than glorifying and studying truth. thanks for saying that.

  • @spokenfor - @ehrinn_l - I've also noticed a lot of Driscoll fans are not Bell fans.

  • isn't eternal burning found in scripture? Not whips and and pitchforks and such thouh.

  • I did not know anything about this issue or the personalities. I was born again in 1965 and it was the happiest day of my life. My life has been more about enjoying life and Jesus made that possible. I just read the Bible through annually from a variety of translations.  I look for strategies for living the Christian life. I don't find faith in Christ a heavy handed religion. I find it inspiriting. I have only notice that some churches seem to emphasize how horrible sin is more than how wonderful Christ is. I have never understood why some churches have to remind the members how awful they are every Sunday when the reason they are there is they one day found out they were sinners and fell in love with Jesus Christ, who changed their lives.

    my opinion.

    frank

  • Well done, Mr Russo.

  • Rob Bell doesn't hold to a Lewis view of hell. He holds to a universalist position, where God forces people into his presence despite them living their lives without him quite happily.

    He also seems to embrace positions like the Christ-myth, though not the mythical part, which holds that gods like Mithra/Mitra/Mithras had features in common with Jesus, which simply isn't true.

    At best I would describe him as someone who does theology with his emotions.

    @Roadkill_Spatula

    Wailing and gnashing of teeth is a reference to extreme sorrow, not in a regretful sense as in, I'm sorry I did that, but more a consequential sense, I'm sorry I got caught and ended up here.

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